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punkusmartyrus ♡ 29 ( +1 | -1 )
Drawing a won game? board #5929374

by move 36, Black was willing to trade off his knight for a draw game due to the openess of the position, but Black was up +2. Was the draw a mistake? Was there some other way Black could of cashed in on the +2 advantage to bring in a win?
sough ♡ 30 ( +1 | -1 )
I think it's too simple to look at it as "-2". White has massive pressure with all 3 major pieces. Black has the passed h pawn but probably won't have time to push it. Unless there is some exchange combination or defensive move that I'm missing, I think black made a wise decision.
coyotefan ♡ 53 ( +1 | -1 )
Good points Remember, chess is not Baseball. You do not win on points. I opposed the +/- informaton being put on the GK screen when it was done for just this reason. I would rather be -9 and have mate in 2 than be +9 and about to be mated.

Feel free to look at both my active and completed games and se how many games I won with a 'minus or zero score'. Also when looking at my active games realize that virtually every game (only 2 are not) against an under 2000 opponent is totally won, while the score may not reflect that.
ionadowman ♡ 95 ( +1 | -1 )
Is there anything against... ... Black playing, say, 40...Ra7!?
The position after White's 40th is:
Now, suppose Black were to play 40...Ra7, pinning the White Q. 41.Rb5+ Ka8 42.R6b6 and now Black can not take: 42...Rxa6 43.Rxa6#
But how about just exploiting the remote pawn (42...h3)? Has White any redress? 43.Rh6 h2; or 43.Ka4 h2 44.Qxa7+ Kxa7 45.Rb7+ Ka8 46.R7b6 Qd4+ with 47...Qxb6 to follow.
(At that, the whole thing might have worked better at move 38, when the Black Q stood at d4: 38...Ra7 39.Rb5+ Ka8 40.R6b6 h3 ... White is in even worse zugzwang, by the looks. Say 41.c3 Qxb6! 42.Rxb6 Rh1! 43.Qxa7 Kxa7 and the rook can't get back in time to stop the h-pawn. Note that Black ought not to play 40...Qxb6 before advancing the h-pawn, as then the White rook does get back to stop the h-pawn.)
Seems, punkusmartyrus, that, unless there is an even more hidden resource for White, you had more than a draw after all...
ionadowman ♡ 57 ( +1 | -1 )
H'mmm.... ... As it turns out, I should have looked a little further into the ending that ensued after the White rook gives itself up for Black's h-pawn. This needed to be investigated, and it turns out that White can hold this ending (it's probably standard technique) especially considering that they are joined flank pawns, and the enemy K is directly in front of them. Something like this:
So the move to pin the White Queen by ...Ra7 don't work, after all (though it comes bally close!)
far1ey ♡ 39 ( +1 | -1 )
Well you probably shoulda tried to promote H pawn while keeping the queens on the board which probably woulda led to draw despite the material. If H pawn lost, no worry queens and rooks will probably give a draw. If H pawn converts then better for you.

Just a thought did you consider Rxc2?I think white gets away but just wondering...
kewms ♡ 86 ( +1 | -1 )
As others have pointed out, material alone is not enough to evaluate a position. That's especially true when the material advantage is relatively small. In this case, for instance, suppose that all the "equal" material gets swapped off, leaving a knight against 2 pawns. Black still has an advantage, but it isn't enough to win. White still has a material deficit, but he also has the only winning chances.

With that said, I don't think I would have swapped off the knight, at least not yet. In the position at move 36, it seems to me that Black should be able to hold off White's threats -- exchanging material if necessary -- long enough to make the h-pawn a factor. The knight's forking potential is likely to be a big help, while the Q-side pawns are not yet an offensive force. But this is off the top of my head, and jet-lagged to boot, so shouldn't be taken as gospel.

ionadowman ♡ 61 ( +1 | -1 )
far1ey... ... Rxc2 does impose itself on one's consciousness, doesn't it? It doesn't work, though. Black just doesn't have enough.
As for trying to promote the h-pawn before exchanging Queens, White can force them off himself, betimes. All the same, I think the position can stand a bit more study...
Kewms's remark about material vs immaterial considerations is pertinent. The Rook vs 3 Pawns ending, given the likely arrangement of the pieces (i.e. spatial and temporal considerations) in this instance, seems to be drawn, despite the +2 advantage. But then, we all know the +4 advantage book draw of K+wrong B + RP vs lone K, don't we?
ionadowman ♡ 67 ( +1 | -1 )
More on 40...Ra7 It looks as though White has an easier road to the draw than I thought:
Recall the position:
After 40...Ra7, White has
41.Rb5+ Ka8 42.Rb4! h3 43.Qxa7! Kxa7 44.Ra4+ Kb7 45.Rb4+ and one way on another, Black has to give up the Q to retain any winning chances: 45...Kc7 46.Rc4+ Qxc4 47.bxc4 Rh8 48.Re1, after which Black has to save the draw (probably not difficult).

White can give up his Q a move earlier:
41.Rb5+ Ka8 42.Qxa7+!? Kxa7 43.Re4 Ka6 44.Rh5 Rc5 45.Rhxh4 Ra5+ 46.Ra4 Qc5+ 47.Kb2 Qe5+ 48.c3 Qe2+ 49.Ka3 Rxa4+ 50.Rxa4+ Kb5 51.Rf4 etc, and White can fancy his chances of holding the draw.

So it looks as though kewms is right: that the win for Black has to be found earlier than move 40 at least and probably earlier than move 38...
punkusmartyrus ♡ 16 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanx.. for all the feed back. I'm unsure if I considered 27... Rxc2+, most likely not, but I don't see any continuation with it that favors white better than drawing chances.
punkusmartyrus ♡ 6 ( +1 | -1 )
sorry, I meant black better than drawing chances.
jsemmens ♡ 13 ( +1 | -1 )
40. ... Ra7?? actually, 40...Ra7 turns out to be a disaster for black:

41. Rb5+ 41. Ka8
42. Rb7 1-0


41. Rb5+ Kc7
42. Re7+ Kd8
43. Qxa7 1-0

Black probably made the right descision by going for a draw I believe.
bogg ♡ 8 ( +1 | -1 )
jsemmens You might want to look at the position after 42. Rb7 one more time.

CTC (Bogg)
punkusmartyrus ♡ 3 ( +1 | -1 )
hmm... 40...Ra7
41. Rb5+ 41. Ka8
42. Rb7 Rxa6+

Would have won, no?
ionadowman ♡ 26 ( +1 | -1 )
Would have won, yes... ... easy mistake to make. It does look like a mate, seen 2-3 moves ahead, and practice of this kind will help improve the vision. For anyone who still don't see it:
41.Rb5+ Ka8
42.Rb7?? Rxa6+
43.Rxa6+ Kxb7 with a quick win for Black.
Cheers, Ion